<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: July 5, 2010 &#8212; Sarah Shun-lien Bynum: &#8220;The Erlking&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mookseandgripes.com/reviews/the-new-yorker-fiction-forum/july-5-2010-sarah-shun-lien-bynum-the-erlking/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mookseandgripes.com/reviews</link>
	<description>Book reviews of contemporary literary fiction and modern classics.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 04:33:56 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://mookseandgripes.com/reviews/the-new-yorker-fiction-forum/july-5-2010-sarah-shun-lien-bynum-the-erlking/comment-page-1/#comment-9774</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 21:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mookseandgripes.com/reviews/#comment-9774</guid>
		<description>I am so tickled by your careful, thoughtful responses and look forward to reading your comments after I read each story.  This is exactly where the blog and the internet can really allow actual content-based discussion between people who (respectfully) disagree about an area they both are passionate about.  BTW, Portrait of the Artist is one of my favorite books and I hardly would place much of today&#039;s interior writing on the level of it or Faulkner or Proust. Also BTW, The phrase &quot;desiring-machine&quot; comes from Gilles Deleuze and Felix Guattari&#039;s &quot;Anti-Oedipus.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so tickled by your careful, thoughtful responses and look forward to reading your comments after I read each story.  This is exactly where the blog and the internet can really allow actual content-based discussion between people who (respectfully) disagree about an area they both are passionate about.  BTW, Portrait of the Artist is one of my favorite books and I hardly would place much of today&#8217;s interior writing on the level of it or Faulkner or Proust. Also BTW, The phrase &#8220;desiring-machine&#8221; comes from Gilles Deleuze and Felix Guattari&#8217;s &#8220;Anti-Oedipus.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Trevor</title>
		<link>http://mookseandgripes.com/reviews/the-new-yorker-fiction-forum/july-5-2010-sarah-shun-lien-bynum-the-erlking/comment-page-1/#comment-9578</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:13:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mookseandgripes.com/reviews/#comment-9578</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad you&#039;re back, Ken!  I&#039;ve been thinking a lot about what you wrote:

&lt;blockquote&gt;I’m find that stories with a sort of stream-of-consciousness style interiority (Ferris, Galchen) are often ones I like and you don’t. Coincidence?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Hopefully over the course of several stories we&#039;ll figure out where our differences lie.  I don&#039;t think it&#039;s here, though.  I admire stream-of-consciousness writing a great deal.  In my thesis I devoted a chapter to &lt;em&gt;Mrs. Dalloway&lt;/em&gt;, one of my favorite novels, then and now.  (Incidentally, my thesis is hardly a scholarly work.  I&#039;m not particularly proud of it or even of the time I spent writing it, but I mention it here just to show that I admired a book and style enough to think I should spend my time with it.)  Another all-time favorite is &lt;em&gt;A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man&lt;/em&gt;, which I revisit far more than any other book.  These were written nearly 100 years ago, though. (wow)  I think my problem with the contemporary stuff I read is that I don&#039;t see the stream-of-consciousness as a technique to reveal character or theme but rather as a quick way to insert voice into a story and to feign intimacy.  I&#039;m a big fan of voice, but sometimes I feel overwhelmed by it in contemporary fiction (at the same time I&#039;m underwhelmed by the effect) and often don&#039;t think there&#039;s much under the technique.  In fact, I am often upset that the style choice seems to be an evasive maneuver, so it seems a technique the author develops to write a lot while saying little.

I don&#039;t think I have a bias against it though.  Maybe.  But for a contemporary take on the style, and one that remains incredibly direct, I loved Maile Meloy&#039;s short story &quot;Paint&quot; from her first collection &lt;em&gt;Half in Love&lt;/em&gt;.  

My problems with &quot;The Erlking&quot; were not stylistic.  I actually really liked the writing and the two voices we come to know.  I read it three times, and one of the main reasons for that was because I thought the writing was excellent.  I really wanted there to be more to the story than that, though, and the other reason I read this one three times is that I didn&#039;t see much behind the writing of the two characters&#039; consciousness.  I appreciate that we get two diverging viewpoints, both with the distractions of the fair, and what this reveals about the mother-child relationship both in the story and in society in general.  I wanted more than that, though, in a story so intricately written and one based on such a fascinating tale.

I do really like how you phrase it, though: &quot;two different desiring-machines.&quot;  With just that little bit of insight and shift in perspective, I am reminded of what I enjoyed in this story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad you&#8217;re back, Ken!  I&#8217;ve been thinking a lot about what you wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>I’m find that stories with a sort of stream-of-consciousness style interiority (Ferris, Galchen) are often ones I like and you don’t. Coincidence?</p></blockquote>
<p>Hopefully over the course of several stories we&#8217;ll figure out where our differences lie.  I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s here, though.  I admire stream-of-consciousness writing a great deal.  In my thesis I devoted a chapter to <em>Mrs. Dalloway</em>, one of my favorite novels, then and now.  (Incidentally, my thesis is hardly a scholarly work.  I&#8217;m not particularly proud of it or even of the time I spent writing it, but I mention it here just to show that I admired a book and style enough to think I should spend my time with it.)  Another all-time favorite is <em>A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man</em>, which I revisit far more than any other book.  These were written nearly 100 years ago, though. (wow)  I think my problem with the contemporary stuff I read is that I don&#8217;t see the stream-of-consciousness as a technique to reveal character or theme but rather as a quick way to insert voice into a story and to feign intimacy.  I&#8217;m a big fan of voice, but sometimes I feel overwhelmed by it in contemporary fiction (at the same time I&#8217;m underwhelmed by the effect) and often don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s much under the technique.  In fact, I am often upset that the style choice seems to be an evasive maneuver, so it seems a technique the author develops to write a lot while saying little.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think I have a bias against it though.  Maybe.  But for a contemporary take on the style, and one that remains incredibly direct, I loved Maile Meloy&#8217;s short story &#8220;Paint&#8221; from her first collection <em>Half in Love</em>.  </p>
<p>My problems with &#8220;The Erlking&#8221; were not stylistic.  I actually really liked the writing and the two voices we come to know.  I read it three times, and one of the main reasons for that was because I thought the writing was excellent.  I really wanted there to be more to the story than that, though, and the other reason I read this one three times is that I didn&#8217;t see much behind the writing of the two characters&#8217; consciousness.  I appreciate that we get two diverging viewpoints, both with the distractions of the fair, and what this reveals about the mother-child relationship both in the story and in society in general.  I wanted more than that, though, in a story so intricately written and one based on such a fascinating tale.</p>
<p>I do really like how you phrase it, though: &#8220;two different desiring-machines.&#8221;  With just that little bit of insight and shift in perspective, I am reminded of what I enjoyed in this story.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://mookseandgripes.com/reviews/the-new-yorker-fiction-forum/july-5-2010-sarah-shun-lien-bynum-the-erlking/comment-page-1/#comment-9468</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 05:59:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mookseandgripes.com/reviews/#comment-9468</guid>
		<description>Back to disagreeing I am.  I agree, though, that the Erlking theme is not particularly graceful in its inclusion.  A child wouldn&#039;t know this reference and yet I don&#039;t think we believe a real Erlking is actually going to scoop up little Ondine.  Otherwise, though, I really enjoyed the shifts of perspective and the stylish writing.  In terms of content, I liked the satire and also the intelligent portrait of two different desiring-machines, adult and child, and how they disagree.  I&#039;m find that stories with a sort of stream-of-consciousness style interiority (Ferris, Galchen) are often ones I like and you don&#039;t.  Coincidence?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back to disagreeing I am.  I agree, though, that the Erlking theme is not particularly graceful in its inclusion.  A child wouldn&#8217;t know this reference and yet I don&#8217;t think we believe a real Erlking is actually going to scoop up little Ondine.  Otherwise, though, I really enjoyed the shifts of perspective and the stylish writing.  In terms of content, I liked the satire and also the intelligent portrait of two different desiring-machines, adult and child, and how they disagree.  I&#8217;m find that stories with a sort of stream-of-consciousness style interiority (Ferris, Galchen) are often ones I like and you don&#8217;t.  Coincidence?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Trevor</title>
		<link>http://mookseandgripes.com/reviews/the-new-yorker-fiction-forum/july-5-2010-sarah-shun-lien-bynum-the-erlking/comment-page-1/#comment-8350</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 14:10:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mookseandgripes.com/reviews/#comment-8350</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t think of the e.e. cummings poem, but I think that&#039;s a good point.  I also think your point about John C. Reilly is insightful, though I have to say it didn&#039;t help the story for me.  Those distractions were just too distracting because they suggest to the reader that importance lies somewhere else (and not in a way to make me connect with the mother).  For example, when talking about John C. Reilly, why the &quot;Daddy and I respect him a lot.  He makes really interesting choices.&quot;  I feel a line like that, placed in its own paragraph when the mom is in a reflective state, sighing, should have some real significance, but I can&#039;t get there.

As sad as it is to miss your child&#039;s childhood because you&#039;re not paying attention, as common an occurrence as that is, this story doesn&#039;t do that common theme justice because it feels very imbalanced -- at least, it doesn&#039;t do it justice from my perspective &lt;em&gt;yet&lt;/em&gt;, anyway, though I&#039;ll probably read it again because it&#039;s still bothering me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t think of the e.e. cummings poem, but I think that&#8217;s a good point.  I also think your point about John C. Reilly is insightful, though I have to say it didn&#8217;t help the story for me.  Those distractions were just too distracting because they suggest to the reader that importance lies somewhere else (and not in a way to make me connect with the mother).  For example, when talking about John C. Reilly, why the &#8220;Daddy and I respect him a lot.  He makes really interesting choices.&#8221;  I feel a line like that, placed in its own paragraph when the mom is in a reflective state, sighing, should have some real significance, but I can&#8217;t get there.</p>
<p>As sad as it is to miss your child&#8217;s childhood because you&#8217;re not paying attention, as common an occurrence as that is, this story doesn&#8217;t do that common theme justice because it feels very imbalanced &#8212; at least, it doesn&#8217;t do it justice from my perspective <em>yet</em>, anyway, though I&#8217;ll probably read it again because it&#8217;s still bothering me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tim R.</title>
		<link>http://mookseandgripes.com/reviews/the-new-yorker-fiction-forum/july-5-2010-sarah-shun-lien-bynum-the-erlking/comment-page-1/#comment-8339</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 03:27:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mookseandgripes.com/reviews/#comment-8339</guid>
		<description>Did anyone see any connections to e.e. cummings &quot;In just Spring&quot; in which the goat-footed balloon-man,like a mythical satyr, leads the children away from their innocence? I thought John C. Reilly and almost everything else mom was thinking about were simply the distractions that kept her from seeing who her child really was.  She knew what she wanted for Ruthie, but she didn&#039;t want to do the real work of understanding her own child.  As a teacher, I see these kinds of parents all the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did anyone see any connections to e.e. cummings &#8220;In just Spring&#8221; in which the goat-footed balloon-man,like a mythical satyr, leads the children away from their innocence? I thought John C. Reilly and almost everything else mom was thinking about were simply the distractions that kept her from seeing who her child really was.  She knew what she wanted for Ruthie, but she didn&#8217;t want to do the real work of understanding her own child.  As a teacher, I see these kinds of parents all the time.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://mookseandgripes.com/reviews/the-new-yorker-fiction-forum/july-5-2010-sarah-shun-lien-bynum-the-erlking/comment-page-1/#comment-8324</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 20:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mookseandgripes.com/reviews/#comment-8324</guid>
		<description>The whole John C. Reilly bit seemed completely out of place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole John C. Reilly bit seemed completely out of place.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Trevor</title>
		<link>http://mookseandgripes.com/reviews/the-new-yorker-fiction-forum/july-5-2010-sarah-shun-lien-bynum-the-erlking/comment-page-1/#comment-8283</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 01:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mookseandgripes.com/reviews/#comment-8283</guid>
		<description>I thought about that angle, Joe, and then read it again to see if the story could support it. I couldn&#039;t figure out how this menacing strawman fit into that, though, nor could I figure out the kids sucking thumbs or the dolls. Or John C. Reilly. What was that all about?  That&#039;s why I think the story was well written but not well controlled. Many things just don&#039;t fit into that interpretation. I do think the loss of childhood &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; what the last few lines are talking about, but that almost made it feel like an afterthought, as if the tale were written and then needed some reason for being. Talk about strawmen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought about that angle, Joe, and then read it again to see if the story could support it. I couldn&#8217;t figure out how this menacing strawman fit into that, though, nor could I figure out the kids sucking thumbs or the dolls. Or John C. Reilly. What was that all about?  That&#8217;s why I think the story was well written but not well controlled. Many things just don&#8217;t fit into that interpretation. I do think the loss of childhood <em>is</em> what the last few lines are talking about, but that almost made it feel like an afterthought, as if the tale were written and then needed some reason for being. Talk about strawmen.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://mookseandgripes.com/reviews/the-new-yorker-fiction-forum/july-5-2010-sarah-shun-lien-bynum-the-erlking/comment-page-1/#comment-8281</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 00:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mookseandgripes.com/reviews/#comment-8281</guid>
		<description>Overall, I rather liked this story, although, like Trevor, I&#039;m not quite sure I know what to make of it.

In any case, I took the story to be a sort of exploration of how we ultimately lose our children despite our best efforts to keep them close to us and to guide them through life. Like any parent (especially modern ones), Kate frets over every decision for her child. Meanwhile, Ondine has a very active and very different life going on inside her (on an outward level, she even refuses to use her given name). So I guess I took the Erlking/straw man to represent the outside forces that inevitably pull children in directions that their parents cannot fathom or even recognize.

Well, that&#039;s my interpretation of the whole thing. Unless, of course, I&#039;ve completely missed the point and the story is actually an extended metaphor for the human digestive system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Overall, I rather liked this story, although, like Trevor, I&#8217;m not quite sure I know what to make of it.</p>
<p>In any case, I took the story to be a sort of exploration of how we ultimately lose our children despite our best efforts to keep them close to us and to guide them through life. Like any parent (especially modern ones), Kate frets over every decision for her child. Meanwhile, Ondine has a very active and very different life going on inside her (on an outward level, she even refuses to use her given name). So I guess I took the Erlking/straw man to represent the outside forces that inevitably pull children in directions that their parents cannot fathom or even recognize.</p>
<p>Well, that&#8217;s my interpretation of the whole thing. Unless, of course, I&#8217;ve completely missed the point and the story is actually an extended metaphor for the human digestive system.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Trevor</title>
		<link>http://mookseandgripes.com/reviews/the-new-yorker-fiction-forum/july-5-2010-sarah-shun-lien-bynum-the-erlking/comment-page-1/#comment-8265</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 15:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mookseandgripes.com/reviews/#comment-8265</guid>
		<description>My thoughts on &quot;The Erlking&quot; above.  I don&#039;t get it.  I have some theories but none of them seem to warrant this short story, so I&#039;m left wondering if it&#039;s me or kind of a bric-a-brac story that lacks cohesion and is more meant to menace slightly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My thoughts on &#8220;The Erlking&#8221; above.  I don&#8217;t get it.  I have some theories but none of them seem to warrant this short story, so I&#8217;m left wondering if it&#8217;s me or kind of a bric-a-brac story that lacks cohesion and is more meant to menace slightly.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

